I switched to a company, which offers electricity from renewable sources, four years ago. In Germany it is possible for everybody to choose the provider of your electricity. It is up to you to go for nuclear power or green energy. My computers crunching for this project are producing nearly no carbon dioxid for a very competitive price [and my fridge, tv, oven, ..., too ;-)]. I was wondering if I am the only one who has done this?!

I think switching to renewable energy for your home is a good way to prove that you really do care about co2-emission. And I know that there are companies selling green energy in the UK as well. How about other countries in Europe and how about the US?

Hi Christian

I live in the UK where there are lots of different electricity companies which supply to the public, all privatised and in competition with each other. Each company offers a selection of tariffs which are effectively in competition within the company.

The electricity is, however, as far as I know, produced by separate and different generating companies. The electricity that they generate then all gets fed into a national grid of powerlines. I assume that in the powerlines the electricity from all the sources (nuclear, coal, wind etc) then gets totally mixed up.

So it seems to me that whichever tariff you choose from whichever company, the composition of the electricity you actually get is exactly the same - a complete mixture. If you choose a green tariff, you get the same mixed-source electricity as your neighbours next door who have chosen a normal, cheaper tariff.

If this were not the case, they would need powerlines like telephone cables which can magically keep all the phone calls separate and not mixed up. Or green tariff customers would need a separate system of powerlines. This has not happened. I can see that nobody has dug up the streets to install new cables.

My impression is that, in the UK at least, the green tariffs are a way of persuading a minority of ecologically-motivated customers to voluntarily pay more in order to finance new green projects. Ideally, all customers should be contributing to these developments.

Have I completely misunderstood a lot of things?
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> So it seems to me that whichever tariff you choose from whichever company, the
> composition of the electricity you actually get is exactly the same - a
> complete mixture. If you choose a green tariff, you get the same mixed-source
> electricity as your neighbours next door who have chosen a normal, cheaper
> tariff.

You are absolutely right! The electricity gets mixed up in a kind of huge "sea". And you are right in thinking that you get the same electrons as your neighbour. But as more and more people decide to go for green energy the mixture in that sea gets greener as well. The problems is, as you mentioned, that a few people could end up paying for new green projects. To prevent this in Germany everybody who is producing green energy (be it water, wind or solar energy) and feds it into the national grid gets paid a very good price. And the energy companies have to connect you and take your electricity. The money for this is paid by EVERY energy customer in Germany resulting in a small surcharge (0.40 cent/kWh) on electricity.

This sounds very ecological at first, because every single person in Germany is contributing to a switch to green energy. But this means that you run into another problem when you switch to a "green energy only" tariff: You need to check if you do not get sold power, which is already paid for by this surcharge mentioned above. But most of the green companies do play by the rules.

So whatever happens in your country, it is never right. :-/ However, I think I have seen companies in the UK advertising to sell green energy for the same price you get from your "old" supplier. Is there any hidden secret behind these offers??

In the UK, all generating companies have to generate a certain percentage of green energy. However, if a company generates more than necessary, it can sell some of this to the other companies to offset their requirements.

Now, the minimum amount of green energy is set by the government. It rises each year to meet various targets. But, if a customer pays for green energy, then the company must generate at least that much. So, if the total required by the customers is less than the total demanded by the government, then the customers have no effect on emissions. However, if the customers demand more than the government, then the companies do have to generate more and emissions do drop.

There are basically 4 types of companies:

1/ Some companies generate too little green energy and buy the extra. These are 'bad'

2/ Some companies generate too much and sell their excess. These are 'not so bad'.

3/ Some companies generate too much and don't sell the excess - they just use it to supply 'non-green' customers. These are 'good'

4/ On one tarrif I have seen, they generate too much and in addition buy excess off others at higher prices to stop the bad companies getting it, forcing them to generate more themselves. These are 'best'

The first 3 should cost the same but the last one costs more because they're paying over the odds for the extra green energy so you effectively end up paying a subsidy to force non-green customers to receive green energy.

I personally switched to NPower Juice last year at no extra cost. My energy is now 100% offshore wind generated.

> However, if the customers demand more than the government, then the
> companies do have to generate more and emissions do drop.

Thanks for your detailed explanation of the energy market in the UK. What I do not understand is, why only few people in Britain actually do switch to green energy then? If the companies cannot reject you as a green customer and the price is the same as for "normal" electricity, there is only benefit for you. What would happen if there are more people trying to switch to green energy than there is supply? Would the companies simply "adjust" the prices for their green customers or would this result in an increase of the general prices as well, with all people paying more?

It all sounds like the British government is regulating the market and there is no real competition, which I would have thought is typical German or French. ;-) Strange world that is!

Hi again

When the gas and electricity supply industry in the UK was first privatised, some of the new companies engaged in very dubious practices to gain new customers (some people found themselves suddenly contracted to a different company because they'd spoken to a salesman at the door). This has led to a level of consumer suspicion and fear of changing company. Some companies have a well-publicised reputation for poor customer service, so people are also afraid that if they change company, they will suffer from this.

There are, however, several websites some of which are genuinely independent where you can compare tariffs and service reputation. When I looked for myself recently for both gas and electricity, none of the green tariffs were among the cheapest. From what Martin said, it would also be worth looking at the green policy of each particular company.

According to Martin, if more people switch to green than there is supply, the companies would be obliged to increase the green supply to that level.

In the UK, on many tariffs, the more electricity or gas you use, the cheaper each unit becomes. If this was reversed, it would encourage people to use less. I don't think that the companies would like the idea much, though; private companies generally want to sell more, not less!
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