[deleted original post as Win98/ME/NT4 is now fine as of version 4.04 of CPDN/BOINC)

Does this mean anyone using too old windows-version will get an error-message then trying to get work, or that CPDN just crashes after downloading the wu?

And why do you give up support?

Does seti also crash under win98 or is it just cpdn?

Greetz
Pconfig

> And why do you give up support?
> Does seti also crash under win98 or is it just cpdn?

It's issues with the CPDN Fortran model under Win98 & ME; we just don't have the resources (people-time & test machines) to explore & fix the problem. Old Win versions (98/ME/NT4) were 3.7% of completed classic CPDN runs, so it's a lot of effort for little good results; especially now that we have to develop and support on Linux & Mac as well.

> > And why do you give up support?
> > Does seti also crash under win98 or is it just cpdn?
>
> It's issues with the CPDN Fortran model under Win98 & ME; we just don't
> have the resources (people-time & test machines) to explore & fix the
> problem.

In other words, if there's wacky coders out there who want to try to figure it out for you, you're willing to help them with the source-code? ;)

(Don't look at me, I never got past C64 BASIC & Machine Language ;))
--------------------
Jordâ„¢
<img src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/cpdn/stats.php?userID=2&amp;trans=off">

&gt; In other words, if there's wacky coders out there who want to try to figure it
&gt; out for you, you're willing to help them with the source-code? ;)

well actually not, the model is a million lines of proprietary code from the UK Met Office so we can't just hand it out "open source" for people to work on.

Too bad. :(

--------------------
Jordâ„¢
<img src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/cpdn/stats.php?userID=2&amp;trans=off">

Hi,

didn't work CPDN/BOINC only for Windows 98 and Windows ME, and the suppurt ist only stopped for this combination or for all CPDN/BOINC for Windows?

Can i use CPDN/BOINC for Windows2000 no more and have to wait/pause till it works again? Or what.

It seems on my PC that it all works.

I use BOINC at first for SETI and when i coulnd't get more work (ec. in the last weeks) my PC runs for CDDN.

After finishig actual work should i pause?


Sorry for bad english, i'm out off school since 20 Jear's.
Greetings Jockel

Hi Jockel, Windows 2000, XP Home/Pro, 2003 are all OK. it is just Windows 98/ME/NT4 that have the problem. I have even seen some ME machines work --- basically if work is getting done and you "trickle" then everything is OK!

Well, I've uninstalled BOINC for two reasons: One is because I have Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition as my operating system and apart from the fact I've discovered BOINC does a number on my computer I'm not made of money, so I've no plans to help Bill Gates reach his next billion dollars by buying every new bug-filled operating system he cranks out; and the other reason is because compatibility with so-called "old" operating systems isn't something which should be so easily dismissed by organizations wishing to enlist people in a common pursuit. The fact this organization is so willing to buy into BOINC's failure to properly do its homework precludes my continued participation here; but I guess, due to having limited financial resources and thus not the "right" operating system, my help isn't wanted anyway. It's good there are so "few" of us out here, eh?
<img src="http://mistercat.bravepages.com/images/logo_org_pub_small.gif">

&gt;The fact this organization is so willing to buy into BOINC's
&gt; failure to properly do its homework precludes my continued participation here;
&gt; but I guess, due to having limited financial resources and thus not the
&gt; "right" operating system, my help isn't wanted anyway. It's good there are so
&gt; "few" of us out here, eh?

I think that's a bit harsh.

1. There's always Linux :-)

2. CPDN does support Win ME, and Joseph Haran is very welcome to join the experiment running the classic version.

3. It isn't BOINC's fault that Carl has had trouble implementing CPDN under BOINC in older versions of Windows, but there are good reasons for stopping trying. Participants in the project have regularly said that the project team has to allocate priorities and make hard choices. Climate modelling is a task for what many of us still think of as supercomputers, of the sort that cost millions a few years ago. It's a big ask for a desktop PC, and older and slower ones are often not up to the task. BOINC offers them the chance to try other things.

Hm, don't forget though :

A whole lot of Systems are still running "obsolete" OS'es on quite current Hardware.

You should see them pouring in at greater numbers via the BOINC alley, once BOINC itself is running stable on Win9x/ME platforms (the current Alpha releases seem to have fixed most Problems)

Reason :
Since there are tons of reasons for individuals 'not' to "upgrade" to Win2000 or WinXP (price, hughe privacy/security issues, more resource hogging, [list could continue for pages here] ), I wouldn't recommend putting this Task off the ToDo list completely.

IMHO, there's one big rule to any DC Project :
Leave noone behind!

Once all major (and easy to implement) OS'es are supported, which is of course the natural priority, any good DC Project needs to take the Task of getting the 'not so shiny' OS'es onboard, once the resources are reasonably free.

In the past, not few scientific discoveries/successes of DC Projects were found to have happened on Machines that were basically thought obsolete. But in the end, the machinery had proven them all wrong ;)
(AFAIK, last occurences are known from Prime95 and Distributed.net, for example)

PS.
My fastest Win98SE machine ever built was running an Athlon64 3200+, and besides running DC Projects itself, it also acted as 24/7 Server for 23 other Client machines connected to it at the same time.

For the ~350000 hours of cumulative CPU time managed/generated that way in my Network, it worked amazingly well.

Currently I'm still running a whole series of Win9x machines ranging from AthlonXP 2200+ upto AthlonXP 3000+ , even some equipped with Win95, yielding 24/7 uptimes in excess of several months (OS is equipped with all Patches of course).
I'm too lazy to switch them to Linux, for as long as they get the job done just as nice.

Additionally, for non-Linux specialists, those are dirt cheap to legally pick up (Ebay), extremely easy to setup, and when configured thoughtfully, do run just as nice as Linux, Unix or WinNT/2000/XP machines as dedicated workhorses.
(I still have the joy of watching that colorful mix of upto 12 more or less different OS'es work hand in hand for Distributed Projects :) )

IMHO, the CPDN Project will benefit (actually already does) greatly from interested, former SETI Users venturing into BOINC territory, and with it, the available non-SETI Projects. (*ugh* I'm one of them ;) )
Part of SETI Classic's major success was and still is, that it can run on basically any Hardware/Platform that is existing.
It would be a great loss permanently closing the door to all those (and that includes all those which platforms aren't even supported at all by BOINC yet, e.g. MIPS3/4 SGI Irix, DEC Alpha, SUN Sparc and alike 64bit Workstations. Some of those can pack a serious punch, if you feed them well optimized native Code)

...just my 2 Cents ;)
___________________________________________
<p>Scientific Network : <a href="http://www.falconfly.de/network.htm">36200 MHz «» 8204 MB «» 815.0 GB</a> </p>

Well, I'm sorry too !
Sorry that all us 98 and me users are not required.
I have been with Seti since 1999 and like many others have moved
over to Boinc.
I don't think that it's a good idea to run Boinc and Classic CPDN together
so it's got to be Seti's gain and your loss.
Also like many others, I cannot afford the cost to upgrade to XP
at the moment.
Don't forget WE are offering our services for FREE.
Paul.

&gt; Don't forget WE are offering our services for FREE.

But development and support for an OS doesn't come 'free'. It comes at the cost of something else, and given the very limited resources available to CPDN I'm afraid it is just to low down the list of priorities.

whew, I guess I really have missed this thread.

Anyway, I'm sorry for Win98 &amp; ME users, however if you are serious about using your PC for distributed computing and don't want to use a Microsoft product you will be much better off with a free Linux distro for anything you wanted to use Win98 &amp; ME for (distributed computing, server usage, etc).

I'm afraid too many people continually ignore or just don't understand the complexity of running a climate model. It's 1.2 million lines of Fortran code that until CPDN has been run on supercomputers (i.e. this IS NOT a "crippled down" version -- it's the same code scientists run on Crays &amp; big clusters etc). That's 40MB of just source code; i.e. akin to sending Linux kernels around the world with precompiled drivers and hoping that tens of thousands of machines can run them OK.

And now with BOINC things such as multithreading and parallel processes are very important, and these are things that Win98 &amp; ME are not very good at. Our rate of success on the "classic CPDN" for 98/ME/NT4 was pretty pitiful, only 3.4% of completed models ran on those with 96.6% on Win2K &amp; XP.

Given our limited resources (there's only two people working on the CPDN client, myself &amp; Tolu, and I'll be moving on in November), it seems the best solution is to concentrate on Win2K &amp; XP as well as our "new" support of Mac OSX &amp; Linux. For Win98 &amp; ME you can always run the "classic CPDN" which is "Win32 only" and will be around for as long as the project is around.

I am a bit confused about this whole discussion. Maybe I understand something wrong.

I am right now running a Climateprediction.net calculation with BOINC on Windows 98!

So what are the consequences of the de-listing for me? Will my results not be accepted? Will the calculation stop at some point? Does it make sense to continue with processing this data set or should I stop it?

&gt; I am a bit confused about this whole discussion. Maybe I understand something
&gt; wrong.
&gt;
&gt; I am right now running a Climateprediction.net calculation with BOINC on
&gt; Windows 98!

Hi, this is an "obsolete" thread, as I have delisted my delisting! ;-)
The recent changes I've made over the past few days mean that Win98/ME/NT4 can run CPDN/BOINC just fine.

&gt; &gt; And why do you give up support?
&gt; &gt; Does seti also crash under win98 or is it just cpdn?
&gt;
&gt; It's issues with the CPDN Fortran model under Win98 &amp; ME; we just don't
&gt; have the resources (people-time &amp; test machines) to explore &amp; fix the
&gt; problem. Old Win versions (98/ME/NT4) were 3.7% of completed classic CPDN
&gt; runs, so it's a lot of effort for little good results; especially now that we
&gt; have to develop and support on Linux &amp; Mac as well.
&gt;


Dear CPDN Users and Staff,

After spending approx 2 hrs reading through the forums and posting my question here http://www.climateprediction.net/board/viewtopic.php?p=25947#25947 I now understand the circumstance behind this problem using the above answer text.

It is unfortunate that WIN 98 &amp; ME have these problems as I am WIN ME user but lashing out at CPDN Staff is not the answer. For now I have made the choice to continue with the programs CPDN and ProteinPredictor (using BOINC Ver 4.19) despite these messages as really, they appear to run fine and are not crashing the system. Each to his or her own choice I say. Still like to know what Kernel.32.dll does though..maybe I'll read about that some day..
Thanks for your time,
Davina Williamson-Stuart a.k.a. Girloftheshadows.

The 98/ME/NT4 problem was fixed by Carl late last year just before his contract was up. It has reappeared recently
with the requirement of the lastest version of BOINC that all files be 'signed'.
Whatever that involves, or why it's needed. And Tolu is up to his eyebrows with programming problems.
Effort has to go to where it gives the most benefit, and with all future experiments being more complex,
and taking longer to run, that is with modern hardware/software. As Carl said ealier in this thread,
there is always Classic CP for those with 7 year old systems.

If you go to <a href="http://217.67.229.234/index.php"> this</a> site, select Climate Prediction on the left hand menu, select project stats, and then page down 4 times, you get 2 pie charts.
These show that Mac users are 2% of the total, so this is why most effort goes into Intel/AMD.
It's similar with the old versions of Windows OS.
This project needs the power of modern computers, which usually come with a modern OS.

****** Wet Blanket Mode off ******

I've just seen on the above site that Willy has added a new chart of the world. Interesting.
Also, this is a good place to see how YOU are doing compared to others.
Just put your user name into the window at top left.
Some options are: How you compare to others with the same number of computers,
Your position in your country,
Your position in the world.
Good site to bookmark.


When I put "Kernel.32.dll" into Google, I got 5,440 pages.

<a href="http://www.all-windows.com/kernel32.html"> This</a> one gives this answer:

What is Kernel32.dll?

Kernel32.dll is the 32-bit dynamic link library of the operating system kernel. Kernel32.dll handles memory management, input/output operations, and interrupts. When Windows boots up, Kernel32.dll is loaded into a protected memory space.

Which creates more questions!

I hope you stick around for the ride. It can be fun. Try the 'Climateprediction.net discussion' forum. This is where most of the users 'hang out'.

Les

Changes in the application program are inevitable, even if the underlying experiment stays the same, because of of the evolving nature of BOINC. Nobody wants to write users of legacy systems out of the picture, but incompatibilities are going to be thrown up from time to time. The case for spending scarce resources fixing these, rather than the many other things that people are shouting for, is going to decline.

As Les says, nobody is likely to meddle with the classic version even though it isn't perfect :)

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