See, the SETI folks get really testy sometimes. I don\'t mind so much the delays in posting credits either externally or internally over here -- as they nearly always get posted in the end -- so the work isn\'t lost (and the credit is awarded). Over the SETI area what I\'ve tried to point out is not that I\'m \'credit hungry\' in any sense, but rather that CPU cycles get wasted. That is what has pushed me over to other projects more than anything. Over in SETI, with the push out of Astropulse (which is still sort of beta-ish) and, for me, the even more troublesome problem of CPU hogging 0% processing regular work units, I\'ve found that I need to closely manage BOINC workstations that have SETI running. That\'s not the case for nearly all the other BOINC projects I support. I dislike wasting *human* CPU cycles even more than silicon CPU cycles. With Climate, that\'s not been an issue at any time. I can say the same for some other projects I participate in such as Malaria, World Grid, Spinhenge, and to a lesser degree Rosetta and Einstein.

I quite understand the concern you are voicing. (Actually, I should say that I *think* I understand. Saying \"I understand\" can come off as a bit condescending.) I even agree. Expressing concern for how the SETI guys should be more communicative and sensitive to credit reporting issues, during time of crisis, in order to not to piss off more the more \"credit-sensitive\" users, more or less got me ousted from the SETI message board. (Ouch!)

But all\'s well that ends well. :-)

Take Care,
Steve

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See, the SETI folks get really testy sometimes. I don\'t mind so much the delays in posting credits either externally or internally over here -- as they nearly always get posted in the end -- so the work isn\'t lost (and the credit is awarded). Over the SETI area what I\'ve tried to point out is not that I\'m \'credit hungry\' in any sense, but rather that CPU cycles get wasted. That is what has pushed me over to other projects more than anything. Over in SETI, with the push out of Astropulse (which is still sort of beta-ish) and, for me, the even more troublesome problem of CPU hogging 0% processing regular work units, I\'ve found that I need to closely manage BOINC workstations that have SETI running. That\'s not the case for nearly all the other BOINC projects I support. I dislike wasting *human* CPU cycles even more than silicon CPU cycles. With Climate, that\'s not been an issue at any time. I can say the same for some other projects I participate in such as Malaria, World Grid, Spinhenge, and to a lesser degree Rosetta and Einstein.

The SETI crowd is \"immature\" IMHO. I like BOINC and believe its vision. I am also an IT professional and believe in \"low administration\". (But I do like to view the graphics of various science apps.) Running SETI and climate have been the most trouble free, but SETI\'s servers are unpredictable. I\'ll always feel like SETI is my \"home\" project for BOINC, but my computer only participates in science that is highly relevant for me (e.g., weather and medical research).

All that just to say that the community at Climate is refreshing calm and useful when someone needs help with their computer. :)

The CPDN programmers, Tolu and Milo, have an alarm that warns them if a server fails. But if trickles stop being updated on our models\' web pages, or the credit export to the stats sites fails, they depend on user reports. The moderators have a hidden forum section where we post about the anomalies we notice or that members report (not just about trickles and credits). If we think it\'s something serious we also send a private message to one of the programmers. I\'m afraid that trickle and credit updates and credit exports don\'t come into the \'serious\' category. \'Serious\' usually means something that could put model data at risk or could cause members real inconvenience.

All the CPDN credit exports (CPDN main, BBC, SAP and Beta) are supposed to happen automatically but in the case of CPDN and SAP something seems to be wrong with the program and Milo sometimes has to run the export manually.

Because there are currently only two programmers for 4 projects/subprojects, it\'s just not realistic to expect them to deal with every problem immediately.

It really does help when members report problems and anomalies on the forums. It also really helps that CPDN members are almost invariably good-tempered and patient even when discussing the most difficult problems!

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Cpdn news

It really does help when members report problems and anomalies on the forums. It also really helps that CPDN members are almost invariably good-tempered and patient even when discussing the most difficult problems!

There are a lot of things that rate above credits. Your statemnet is one of those other things! <smile>

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But I want it fixed and I want it fixed now -- whine, whine. Oh, sorry, I thought this was someplace else <g>.

Because there are currently only two programmers for 4 projects/subprojects, it\'s just not realistic to expect them to deal with every problem immediately.

It really does help when members report problems and anomalies on the forums. It also really helps that CPDN members are almost invariably good-tempered and patient even when discussing the most difficult problems!

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Credits aren\'t \"lost\" at CPDN, even if some Trickles go astray in some rare circumstance. In that case, there night be a small gap in the graphs (depending on the Model) but credits are recomputed each time they are updated, based on the most recent Trickle received. (Trickle \'n\' times credit per Trickle.)

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"We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo
Greetings from coastal Washington state, the scenic US Pacific Northwest.

Credits aren\'t \"lost\" at CPDN, even if some Trickles go astray in some rare circumstance. In that case, there night be a small gap in the graphs (depending on the Model) but credits are recomputed each time they are updated, based on the most recent Trickle received. (Trickle \'n\' times credit per Trickle.)

No stats from CPDN showed up at BOINCstats today (Sunday), and there\'s been no updates since then. Someone needs to kick the stats export here...

Mark

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Credits aren\'t \"lost\" at CPDN, even if some Trickles go astray in some rare circumstance. In that case, there night be a small gap in the graphs (depending on the Model) but credits are recomputed each time they are updated, based on the most recent Trickle received. (Trickle \'n\' times credit per Trickle.)

No stats from CPDN showed up at BOINCstats today (Sunday), and there\'s been no updates since then. Someone needs to kick the stats export here...

Mark

Mark,

A message has been passed on to the project. I don\'t know whether the machine has been kicked yet, but Milo is getting his boots on ...

Iain

A message has been passed on to the project. I don\'t know whether the machine has been kicked yet, but Milo is getting his boots on ...

Iain

Looks like Milo\'s boots are working just fine:

  <update_time>1220265773</update_time> <== Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:42:53 UTC
  <nusers_total>169341</nusers_total> 
  <nteams_total>6031</nteams_total> 
  <nhosts_total>321848</nhosts_total> 
  <total_credit>5998589050.864962</total_credit> <== was 5,985,280,681

Milo might need to dig out bigger boots - there\'s been no update for a couple of days again! I think the last BOINCstats recognised one was on the sixth...

[edit] Never mind, just saw Mo\'s message on the other board...[/edit]

Members may or may not believe this, but CPDN is one of the most reliable BOINC projects in terms of server uptime. However, that doesn\'t take into account whether all the sub-programs (eg the credit export) are working.

So bearing in mind that Milo and Tolu have had severe problems with lack of disk space on the servers and therefore spend a lot of time troubleshooting, they do pretty well. I believe they\'ve asked Oxford Uni for quite a lot of money for a new server but don\'t know what the response will be.

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Cpdn news

Looks like the daily trickles update to the database didn\'t process last night.

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Looks like the daily trickles update to the database didn\'t process last night.

me too , no tricles and no credits since 2 days......

greetz from Switzerland
littleBouncer

[edit]
correction: Trickles were reported and in the DB, but they aren\'t \'credited\'. (no credits)
[/edit]

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correction: Trickles were reported and in the DB, but they aren\'t \'credited\'. (no credits)

Looks like mine have been credited this morning, after a blank day yesterday. I don\'t (yet) know when they\'ll make it out to the stats sites, though.

There are two things I would like to know about credits.

1) When the \"credit update\" program is run - the new figures appear at approx 08.30 UK time - are the updates based on trickles received up to that moment, or has a \"snapshot\" been taken some time previously?

2) Is there a \"terminal bonus\" for completed models, or is the final .zip upload simply equal to the previous ones?

John
GW3PRV

Credit is when credit is evaluated. (Edit: based on received Trickles.)

There is no \"bonus\" -- credit is apportioned on a paid-as-you-go basis (and I\'d gladly forgo the \'honor\').

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"We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo
Greetings from coastal Washington state, the scenic US Pacific Northwest.

Looks like for the first time in a while, credit trickles didn\'t find their way into the database last night.

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The experiment status at the bottom right of the project index page also looks as if it hasn\'t updated today.

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Cpdn news

OK -- was wondering if the admins that be are in the loop as well, elsewise it is simply a private conspiracy <smile>.

The experiment status at the bottom right of the project index page also looks as if it hasn\'t updated today.

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Yes, we have a mod/admin thread where we flag up and discuss server problems. It\'s a riveting read, full of dramas and crises with Milo invariably delivering a cathartic and triumphant dénouement. So far.

Les reported what you said several hours ago.

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Cpdn news