Thanks Dave. I\'ve been out of circulation for a week or so and may not be entirely reliable for a while. However, I\'ve now got login access to this board again and will send you a PM with my e-mail address. The \'.cpdn\' file can then be analysed and added to the collection: I\'m sure a pattern will emerge in time that will be significant to the project physicists.

(Sorry, Don, for not being able to respond more quickly: I see you\'ve aborted the model now.)

Two more iceworlds have now been processed, points #22 and 23 on the west coast map - one from Dave Peachey and one of mine, both phase 2 slabs. The map earlier in the thread has been updated.

Thanks Dave!

Iain

I have one I am recording for you but it may not become an ice world. I see someone has completed this model and two others had computer errors. 10 copies were sent out Nov 2nd and all have some progress made. I noticed it this morning when checking the graphics that a large chunk of the Pacific Ocean was Green of the Northern Coast of South America. I have started the recording but have not done a back up of this model and therefore wont have the initial freeze points on it. It may not turn into an ice world but if it does maybe one of the other crunchers who have not gone as far into this model as I have would record it for you.

Heres the Work Unit : 6692632

This one is Mine : 953461

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Rick

Thanks for looking at that, Rick.

The complete model in that work unit is showing a marked decline in precipitation (here) but has a complete set of temperature and precipitation data and doesn\'t slow down. So, I\'d bet that your model will finish OK, though it would appear to have an odd climate.

Tell us how it develops. Even if it finishes successfully, you could treat this model as a dry run (no pun intended) for an iceworld - see if you can find where the plaback \'.cpdn\' files are stored: there should be thousands by now. They\'re cleaned up when the model finishes.

Iain

Thanks for looking at that, Rick.

The complete model in that work unit is showing a marked decline in precipitation (here) but has a complete set of temperature and precipitation data and doesn\'t slow down. So, I\'d bet that your model will finish OK, though it would appear to have an odd climate.

Tell us how it develops. Even if it finishes successfully, you could treat this model as a dry run (no pun intended) for an iceworld - see if you can find where the plaback \'.cpdn\' files are stored: there should be thousands by now. They\'re cleaned up when the model finishes.

Iain

It looks like it has finished Iain. I wont be in to the office until after it reports. Does that mean the cpdn files wont be saved for it?

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Rick

It looks like it has finished Iain. I wont be in to the office until after it reports. Does that mean the cpdn files wont be saved for it?

The trickles are already on the Web site and the temperature/precipitation graphs too. So the model looks like a conventional success - and no evidence of an iceworld from the graphs, just the same cool and dry climate reported by the other finisher in the work unit.

I\'m not sure at exactly what point the \'.cpdn\' files are tidied up, but they will certainly have been done by the time the model gets to report. It is a bit of a problem having to know that an iceworld is coming before turning the recording on: I try to download new models as far ahead of time as possible (the BOINC maximum is ten days), so that someone else can get ahead of me. Otherwise, the best method is to wait for an iceworld and then re-run it from backup with the recording switched on some time before the freeze (but I know that\'s a bit of a hassle).

It looks like it has finished Iain. I wont be in to the office until after it reports. Does that mean the cpdn files wont be saved for it?

The trickles are already on the Web site and the temperature/precipitation graphs too. So the model looks like a conventional success - and no evidence of an iceworld from the graphs, just the same cool and dry climate reported by the other finisher in the work unit.

I\'m not sure at exactly what point the \'.cpdn\' files are tidied up, but they will certainly have been done by the time the model gets to report. It is a bit of a problem having to know that an iceworld is coming before turning the recording on: I try to download new models as far ahead of time as possible (the BOINC maximum is ten days), so that someone else can get ahead of me. Otherwise, the best method is to wait for an iceworld and then re-run it from backup with the recording switched on some time before the freeze (but I know that\'s a bit of a hassle).

I will get into the habit of backing up my computer in the future. (Have said that more than once over the years) If this model is of interest for you to follow (and you get hold of one of the other crunchers) I can tell you that I noticed the very odd temp displays on the last day of crunching with about 9 hrs left. I think the model date was around Sep 2064.

Keep up the good work. I follow this thread, as well as the others, closely as Climate Change and Weather Patterns are of great interest to me.

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Rick

Iain,

hadsm3fub_kas7_006471153_7 iceworlds somewhere after TS 129,624 of phase 3, and it repeated from a backup made around TS 40,000, phase 3. Prior to the backup I was running a modified version of the hadsm3_um executable to enable SSE/SSE2 on AMD processors (which boosts the speed by ~%80 -- thanks geophi!) I decided to go back to the original executable to test an undervolt setting which was giving me computation errors in Sept. and Oct. I didn\'t encounter any errors this time, but produced the iceworld within a day. I went back to default voltages and restored from backup and got the iceworld again after TS 129,624. I am curious to see if the modified executable will iceworld, and also wonder if the model would have iceworlded earlier under the original executable. (Is \"iceworld\" a verb?)

I was pleased to finally perform a successful restore of a single task (restoring projects/climateprediction.net/hadsm3... directory, projects/climateprediction.net/hadsm3....xml file, slots/x directory and editing three xml\'s in the top level directory), so I am at your disposal if you want me to experiment. I only have the one backup though, how do I start the task over from scratch with the originial zip file? And what\'s this \"recording\" that everyone is doing?

Ahh. Helps to read the first post. I will commence recording with the unmodified executable later today.

Eric

Thanks, Eric.

This effort is initially concerned with some pretty basic questions: in particular, \'are fast-processing iceworlds on Windows/AMD, Linux/AMD and Mac the same thing as slow-processing iceworlds on Windows/Intel?\' It\'ll be very surprising if the answer is \'no\', but since I\'ve only got one iceworld that isn\'t Windows/Intel there\'s still a bit of work to be done even on the basics.

So, a Linux/AMD model would be a big step forward, not only because it would extend coverage to a third platform but because the one Windows/AMD model that has been analysed \'froze\' in an unusual place - so your model might add to the variety of freeze points - which must be a significant diagnostic as to the cause (coastal location, restricted latitude range).

And what\'s this \"recording\" that everyone is doing?

The \'recording\' is from the graphics display, where pressing Ctrl-Q will toggle the recording on and off. (This is the graphics display that appears after pressing \'Show graphics\' in BOINC Manager, not the screensaver.) The recording generates a 100-120 kB \'.cpdn\' file per timestep in the model\'s \'tmp\' folder. The \'.cpdn\' playback file is a compressed binary file, which means that it isn\'t necessary to stare at the graphics waiting for an iceworld to happen (which is how I started!) - just set the recording going and look for the change in \'.cpdn\' file size that occurs at the freeze point. The file I need is the one before the file size reduction is noticeable (i.e. which has just one frozen grid point).

I only have the one backup though, how do I start the task over from scratch with the originial zip file?

I don\'t know the answer to that: from your single model restore I would guess you\'re way ahead of me in file editing. However, I do now operate a backup policy of downloading a new model before the old model finishes, finish and report the old model, backup the \'raw\' model (i.e. still in Zip file format), then start again. This allows small backups of uncontaminated models to be moved from machine to machine. However, it is a long way back if the freeze point is missed, so I sometimes make phase end backups as well.

If you do get the model going again from the backup, then send me a PM and I\'ll reply with an e-mail address to which the file can be sent. (It would also be an interesting footnote to find out whether the two executables freeze at the same point: the most likely explanation for platform differences is some arcane instruction set variation in the run-time library. However, that\'s a lot to ask!)

WU: 6690551 Iceworld at TS 202.622 (also from backup); generated .cpdn-files; have a backup immediatedly (savepoint) before that point.

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WU: 6690551 Iceworld at TS 202.622 (also from backup); generated .cpdn-files; have a backup immediatedly (savepoint) before that point.

Thanks for that: there are several other Windows/Intel machines stuck in that WU, so it\'s definitely a proper iceworld and not a PC problem. I\'ve sent a PM with the e-mail address for the \'.cpdn\' file - it should be 100 - 120 kB.

Two more iceworlds to report, one from Belfry and one from peterfilla - to whom thanks are due! Both models freeze on the west coast of North America, though in different places. The map earlier in this thread has been updated accordingly.

The fast-processing iceworld from Belfry is the first Linux/AMD model to be analysed in this way. In common with iceworlds on Windows/Intel (slow) and Windows/AMD (fast) the freeze:

* appears in the second timestep of a group of six

* happens at a grid point adjacent to land in a restricted latitude band.

I take this as good evidence that models on all three platforms freeze for the same reason. Keep the models coming, on any platform, as the geographical distribution may give a clue as to the underlying cause.

Now, what we need is a Mac user!

Here is a summary of the steps needed to submit an iceworld:

[Les Bayliss wrote:]

1) Backup your current position and make sure to put it somewhere safe. With an appropriate label! You\'re going to need this to continue later!
2) Restore the pre-iceworld backup.
3) Make sure that the project is set to \'No new tasks\' in the Projects tab.
4) Make sure that BOINC is set to Network activity suspended.
5) Suspend all models except for the \'iceworld\'.
6) Press the \'Show graphics\' button in BOINC.
7) Press <Ctrl> Q to start recording. (Or run the model for a while first, to get closer to the failure point. It took me a while to do this, because I kept missing it.)
8) Close the graphics window (the recording will carry on).
9) Save the relevant .cpdn file. (I saved half a dozen before and after. To be sure; to be sure.)
10) Copy the GOOD backup back to the working location.
11) Continue from where you were. (You can Abort the \'iceworld\' model.)
12) Get the address from Iain for sending the file.
13) Send it.

Thanks to Les for that. I added a couple of steps to start/stop the graphics.

That\'s a pretty complicated method for me. My method is way simpler!

1) Model starts
2) Press the \'Show graphics\' button in BOINC.
3) Press <Ctrl> Q to start recording.
4) If Iceworld develops, send the relevant .CPDN file to Iain.

I do admit you need to reset the recording each time BOINC shuts down, which can be a nuisance, and you need a couple hundred GB\'s of spare disk storage.

Cheers
David

Here is a summary of the steps needed to submit an iceworld:

[Les Bayliss wrote:]

1) Backup your current position and make sure to put it somewhere safe. With an appropriate label! You\'re going to need this to continue later!
2) Restore the pre-iceworld backup.
3) Make sure that the project is set to \'No new tasks\' in the Projects tab.
4) Make sure that BOINC is set to Network activity suspended.
5) Suspend all models except for the \'iceworld\'.
6) Press the \'Show graphics\' button in BOINC.
7) Press <Ctrl> Q to start recording. (Or run the model for a while first, to get closer to the failure point. It took me a while to do this, because I kept missing it.)
8) Close the graphics window (the recording will carry on).
9) Save the relevant .cpdn file. (I saved half a dozen before and after. To be sure; to be sure.)
10) Copy the GOOD backup back to the working location.
11) Continue from where you were. (You can Abort the \'iceworld\' model.)
12) Get the address from Iain for sending the file.
13) Send it.

Thanks to Les for that. I added a couple of steps to start/stop the graphics.

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Hello all
I\'m a newbee to the board and have an iceworld, I can\'t say exactly when it occurred but I noticed it several days ago when the \"to completion\" time kept getting longer, not shorter. I\'ve got a Q6600 XP pro machine and have 172 hours of CPU time into it, it\'s @ 35.284% completion.
Is this a lost cause?

Hello all
I\'m a newbee to the board and have an iceworld, I can\'t say exactly when it occurred but I noticed it several days ago when the \"to completion\" time kept getting longer, not shorter. I\'ve got a Q6600 XP pro machine and have 172 hours of CPU time into it, it\'s @ 35.284% completion.
Is this a lost cause?

It looks to be frozen(No Pun intended). I\'m pulling the plug.

[karfixer wrote:]It looks to be frozen(No Pun intended). I\'m pulling the plug.

Here is a graph of relative model speed vs trickle number for that work unit.

As you can see a number of models have hit the same problem. You were right to abort the model.

Better luck next time!

I reckon I have one. It\'s Windows and Intel. It\'s task hadsm3mh_kv3y_006489250_1 using hadsm3mh version 602 . Sadly, I take my backups about every 5 days and today was going to be the next backup, so I\'ve got 5 days of processing to get back to Ice World Point but I\'ve started processing from the last backup to collect the data for your Appeal.

By the way, is there any point transferring it to an AMD machine to see if it passes the Ice World Point? Is this something that\'s been looked into?

By the way, is there any point transferring it to an AMD machine to see if it passes the Ice World Point? Is this something that\'s been looked into?

This has been discussed extensively on the other discussion board, and, yes, it does work.
But part of the point of these models is to see what happens to them, given a specified set of starting values. If they fail to complete, then the researchers want to know this, and forcing a model to complete by any means possible defeats this part of the work.

Restoring from backups should really only be used to see if the failure was because of a momentary hardware problem. Otherwise, let it fail, and then report this to the server.

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Backups: Here

By the way, is there any point transferring it to an AMD machine to see if it passes the Ice World Point? Is this something that\'s been looked into?

This has been discussed extensively on the other discussion board, and, yes, it does work.
But part of the point of these models is to see what happens to them, given a specified set of starting values. If they fail to complete, then the researchers want to know this, and forcing a model to complete by any means possible defeats this part of the work.

Restoring from backups should really only be used to see if the failure was because of a momentary hardware problem. Otherwise, let it fail, and then report this to the server.

Thanks, Les. I\'ll do as you suggest.